Escaping Christadelphianism

Why people become Christadelphians and how they may be assisted to escape from the sect

Contributed by John Bedson

‘Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believing as we already do' - James Harvey Robinson

‘Thinking must never submit itself, neither to a dogma, nor to a party, nor to a passion, nor to an interest, nor to a preconceived idea, nor to whatever it may be if not to facts themselves; because for it to submit, it would be to cease to be’ - Henri Poincaré

‘Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.’ - André Gide

The overwhelming majority of Christadelphians are converted because they are born into a Christadelphian family and they adopt the faith of their parents.

Generally speaking most children accept the family religion. Catholics beget more Catholics, Protestants beget more Protestants, Muslims beget more Muslims and Christadelphians beget more Christadelphians. So on it goes, around the globe in all religions.


Young minds are naturally attracted to adopt the beliefs and ways of their parents. To do so bestows an evolutionary advantage and that is why this behaviour is born and bred into us all. Since the time that Homo Sapiens first left Africa, survival critically depended on families and clans remaining together and not being dispersed. Families that split up would soon be lost to posterity and their genes not passed on.

The children of Christadelphian parents who follow their parents into the family religion are not displaying "faith", they are obeying the instructions coded into their genes and adopting the mindset and beliefs of their parents.

Adolescents think that they are rebelling against the authority of their parents, but in reality they are following in their parent’s footsteps. Tell any Catholic, Protestant, Muslim or Christadelphian that the primary reason that they maintain their affiliation is because of childhood conditioning and they will reply that you are mistaken. They will claim that they hold their conviction because of the authority of the Papacy, or that they object to the authority of the papacy, or the prophet was inspired by Allah, or that Dr Thomas rediscovered the Truth. However the end result is that religious affiliation is not so much a matter of faith and conviction, but rather it is a result of a genetic lottery.

The majority of humans are born into their religion. That is how it has been since the beginning of history. Every religious person claims a personal conviction and maintains that they have thought it out for themselves and formed their own independent opinion by vigorously examining their own beliefs. But the reality is that the “churn” of people switching between, or abandoning belief systems is very small. Childhood conditioning has created a powerful cognitive bias in their minds towards a certain religion that is almost impossible for them to overcome.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with "faith". It is like an addiction to crack cocaine or nicotine that cannot be broken. The great majority of Christadelphian offspring will be baptised. Childhood conditioning has "hooked" them and they are unable to escape from the family religion. The religion is actually a nonsense, but to the infant mind it all makes perfect sense to believe what they are taught by their parents. As their minds mature the imprint of that conditioning becomes stronger, not weaker.

It is not just the Christadelphians, all childhood religious imprinting works the same way. "Give me a child until he is five and I will give you a Catholic for life" is the Jesuit pledge. I was a Christadelphian child until I was fifteen and it took another twenty wasted years before I could shake my mind free. I was lucky to escape.

Tens of thousands of Christadelphians are still trapped in the Christadelphian belief system convinced that they are there because of the exercise of their own free will and intelligently considering the facts. But they are wrong. They are like North Korean children praising "The Dear Leader" because that is what they learned from their parents. It is NOT faith - it is an invisible, mental, genetic trap.

Because the walls of the trap are invisible they cannot escape because they do not see the walls of the trap and they think themselves to be free. But they are not free. They are held in a matrix that has an overwhelming power to fool their minds into thinking that a nonsensical religion, completely lacking in rational evidence, is "The Truth" when in reality it is a fantasy.

Is it God's purpose in the "Latter Days" to confer salvation only on the descendents of a tiny number of families primarily in the Anglo-Saxon English speaking area of the world? The Bible certainly does not predict such a bizarre outcome. So why has it worked out that way for the Christadelphians?

It has worked out that way because a minor Nineteenth Century American revivalist sect has survived into the Twenty First Century by being handed down through families that have shut their minds to the realities of what is going on in the outside world.

The Amish and other sects have survived for exactly the same reason. It has nothing to do with faith, or God, or the Bible, or anything at all supernatural or divine. John Thomas's beliefs have been preserved in families who are unknowingly obeying their genetic instructions to preserve the family religion.

Those same genes were bred into their ancestors in Africa hundreds of thousands of years ago as a way to strengthen families and the clan in order to improve the chances of survival in a hostile world. It's not Christadelphianism that is in their genes; it is the preservation of family ways that is in their genes.

If they had been born Amish or Mormon they would be Amish or Mormons instead of Christadelphians. It is not "faith" or divine providence, it is a refusal to let go of the past and use the mind productively. It is the natural human tendency to take the easy option and avoid facing hard realities. Christadelphianism is not a collection of God's saints; it is an ostrich with its head buried deep in the sands of time.

Therefore I observe a disturbing principle operating: The world is populated by billions of humans who are following thousands of different and exclusive religions into which they have been born by a mindless genetic lottery.

They are all convinced that they have thought it out for themselves and that everyone else in all of the other religions is wrong. You could argue that most of them go along with the family religion because it is the easy option. But, challenge the faith of any of these people and you will be surprised at the vigour with which they defend their position.

Because the great majority remain in the beliefs into which they have been born, it must be obvious that, re-examining those beliefs rigorously when of a more mature age, is not the determining factor in establishing faith or conviction. Instead it appears to me that childhood conditioning is the causal factor. “But I re-examined my beliefs rigorously” a believer will claim. My rejoinder is: “Yes - that’s what they all say!” "Re-examining beliefs rigorously” almost always results in the subject reinforcing his previously held belief in the family religion and often makes him into a stronger adherent and promoter of the family faith.

That is what happened to me. I know because "I've been there and done that". I was as misguided as the Christadelphians who remain in the religion now. I am not smarter than them because I left; I was just extremely fortunate that things worked out for me the way that they did. They are unfortunate because they did not get the break that I did.

A minority of people join a new faith which is not the family religion. A small number of people convert to the Christadelphian religion when it is not their family religion. However when you investigate the real reason why they converted it usually falls into one of the following categories:

1. They marry INTO the faith. Therefore romance or sex is the inspiration for their conversion, not intellectual conviction. If challenged they will deny this. But as it is a world-wide, faith-wide phenomenon it is quite obvious that the desire for sex and romance preceded their declaration of "faith" in the new religion, or in Christadelphianism. One Christian sect "Hookers for Jesus" recognizes the power of this basic human instinct and uses sex as the primary method of conversion. Sure, it can result in conversion, but it can hardly be called "faith". The mind has been tricked into believing something because of a greater payoff. The payoff is a partner, not life after death. The brain knows that a partner in this life is worth far more than the illusion of life after death for which evidence is totally absent.

2. They join the faith because they are expecting material reward. You only have to observe the Christadelphian "conversions" in Eastern Europe and Russia etc to see this happening. In the process of time the Christadelphian religion might eventually transform into some sort of social welfare organization rather than a religion and that would be no bad thing. But converts rising from the waters of baptism with hands held out for welfare makes a mockery of the faith. Bribery is NOT conversion.

3. They join the faith because they desire social acceptance and fraternity. I have seen this happen on several occasions during my time in the Christadelphians. One of the people that I "converted" joined for that reason. I could have told him that we were aliens from another planet for all he cared. He was just lonely and we were the answer to his problem. He died in the faith and we gave him a good send-off. But we did not send him to God's Kingdom. We sent him to the grave and that is where he will remain for all eternity, along with all the other Christadelphians and all the members of every religion that has ever been or that ever will be. It was all an empty sham except for the fact that he did find some friends in his declining years. That was the only good that came of the whole thing. If people want to join the Christadelphians to make friends then I'm all for it; but let's not kid ourselves that faith has got anything to do with it.

The reality is that it is extremely difficult to get anyone at all to join the Christadelphian religion for the biblical reason - that they have been converted by the power of the Holy Spirit operating through the Word of God. You know from your own experience and I know from mine that Christadelphian preaching is a thankless task. It is extremely rare that you ever convert anyone at all unless it is for one of the reasons given above and those reasons are NOT biblical conversion; they are decisions arrived at as a result of faulty cognitive bias or pressure.

Christadelphians stay in their religion because the faith acts as a network of social involvement and support. To leave the religion means to be judged and ostracised by one's relatives and peers and no one wants that to happen. Being a member of a group that believes irrational things makes those beliefs seem somehow normal. You look at all the other "normal" people in the group who believe what you believe and it reassures your mind that your beliefs are socially accepted because everyone else in the group thinks the same way. But the problem with that arrangement is that what is actually happening is that each member of the group is reinforcing the paranoia of everyone else.

It's a bit like the story of the emperor who rode through the streets naked. The crowd saw nothing wrong with the spectacle and were held in a collective delusion with each member of the crowd reinforcing the mistaken belief of the others. Only when an outsider cried out that the emperor was naked did the illusion vanish and the individual members of the group realise that they had been foolish.

An individual who thought that he could gain eternal life, murder unbelievers and help rule the world for a thousand years would be diagnosed as being seriously paranoid and prescribed sedating medication; they might even be restrained under a mental health order. But when such an individual is a member of a fifty thousand strong group like the Christadelphians, who all think the same way, the rational constraints of secular society no longer act to balance the person's thinking to a healthy psychological frame of mind.

Indeed, society itself tends to ring-fence such madness, labels it as a "Faith" and accords a level of respect to such a faith. It is only when a "Faith" begin to stockpile weapons, or release sarin gas on Japanese subways, or marry off underage girls to old men, or shoot a US Congressman, or fly planes into skyscrapers that society decides that the "Faith" has crossed the line between religious fantasy and reality and the leaders of the "Faith" are thrown into jail.

"Faiths" are tolerated by society just so long as the faith does not turn into reality. Christadelphians don't turn their faith into reality. They just keep patiently waiting for a return of Christ that will never happen. Society tolerates them, they reinforce each other's delusion, their children propagate the myth to the following generation and so it goes on.

It keeps going on because the faith and reality are not allowed to bump into each other. As long as the Jews hang on to a slither of Palestine the Christadelphians will forget that J Thomas told them that Christ would return in the middle of the Nineteenth Century one hundred and sixty years ago and they will keep hoping that the impossible will happen and that they will hit the jackpot when the overdue Christ makes his appearance. If Iran drops a few nuclear weapons onto Israel, or if the Israelis make a genuine peace with the Palestinians, faith will crash into reality for the Christadelphians and the bottom will drop out of the religion. Only a few die-hards will remain and the passage of time will finish them off.

Christadelphians believe in and defend their religion because of faulty cognitive bias. All the other believers in religions are similarly deceived. The fact that all the different religions claim that they hold the exclusive truth and that everyone else is mistaken is powerful evidence that they are all mistaken. The same forces for conversion operate in all religions and no less in Christadelphianism. People are born into the religion, or they marry into it, or they join in the expectation of reward, or they are lonely and desire social support. Like homeopathy, voodoo, astrology, clairvoyance, spiritualism, witchcraft, alien abduction, crop circles, water divining, flat Earth theory and similar delusions it is misguided, superstitious, naïve, dysfunctional thinking. It has nothing whatsoever to do with a “God”; it is a manifestation of human frailty making a mistake.

The good news is that leaving the Christadelphians is easier then ever before. Thousands of us Ex-Christadelphians have successfully escaped from the sect and established wonderfully successful and satisfying lives in the “normal” world outside the religion. People are leaving the Christadelphians faster than at any time in its history.

The Internet provides a very effective method of providing support and encouragement to leavers and you can be assured of tremendous help from us if you have the courage to cleanse your mind from the poison of distorted Christadelphian thinking.

Like us, you will find the social upheaval of leaving to be upsetting because your previous Christadelphian friends will almost certainly reproach and reject you for your bravery in rejecting their dogma. Like us, you will feel the shame and guilt that you once believed things that bordered on the insane. But we ex-Christadelphians are a thousand times stronger than the people that we have left behind because we are thinking rationally.

Intelligent, sensible human reasoning has been the driving force of human progress throughout all of history and that same force is now operating to bring an end to Christadelphian dogma, doctrine and the whole ridiculous eschatology. I implore you to open your eyes and realise that what the Christadelphians call “The Truth” is actually a ragbag of lies and paranoid thinking. Your road to discovering truth must commence by walking down a path that is called disbelief. If you have the nerve to undertake that journey you will free your mind from Christadelphian captivity and, like us, you will pity the poor souls who remain, waiting for a Kingdom that throughout the ages of eternity - is never going to happen.

John Bedson
Melbourne Australia
bedson@pacific.net.au

Ex-Christadelphian since 1986

39 comments:

  1. I feel vindicated, heh heh. Thanks John for that great post.

    I left the Christadelphians in 1980 and not because of anything doctrinal but because I was one of those "converted" from outside. And, that's the way I was treated, as an outsider.

    When I was going through a difficult time, they all deserted me and fled. I never went back.

    I suppose I should thank my old ecclesia for showing me their true selves.

    They are a bunch of people who have no empathy or sympathy for anyone other than their own and as you point out, they're all family. Anyone else is an outsider, even if they are a member of Christadelphia.

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  2. Thanks.

    To my eternal shame I treated "outsiders" the same way when I was a Christadelphian. I hang my head in shame that I believed that stuff and acted that way. It is only after you leave that you look back in horror at the dysfunctional, deluded person that you were when you belonged to the sect.

    If any Christadelphians are reading this please do not take offence. You poor people are trapped in a cult and your minds are not thinking straight. It is not your fault. You are victims of a collective delusion that is preventing your minds from thinking rationally. You need help, just like we ex-Christadelphians needed urgent help when we believed all that crap. We are not “attacking” you; we are here to help pull you out of a bizarre cult and to set your minds free to see the world as it really is.

    It is a beautiful world out here beyond the prison bars of Christadelphianism. Leave and I promise you that you will never want to return to your prison. You will enthusiastically join us in attempting to rescue the “brethren and sisters” that you left behind.

    People are “converted” to Christadelphianism, but they are “rescued” from it when they leave. If you leave, you will realise what we mean.

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  3. Most Christadelphians "escape" (fall away) because they are homosexuals, or drunks, or judge themselves as unacceptable. What a waste of time to throw away the Truth. And what a silly website. I was not raised as a Christadelphian, neither was my wife. I have been involved in many people leaving this world and becoming Christadelphians. Sour grapes quitters are not to be lauded but pitied.

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  4. ekim, you are the perfect poster child for the reason people need to escape this cult. Your very thoughts have been so perverted by CD thinking that you can think only evil thoughts.

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  5. ekim:

    Thank you for your comment and I respect your point of view. I left the Christadelphians because I came to the conclusion that they were not correct in much of their thinking. It's "sour Grapes" if you are denied something that you want and then feel aggrieved. I don’t feel that way about Christadelphians. I feel very pleased that I left, ashamed that I was so mistaken to have believed all that stuff and I feel sorry for people who have difficulty realising that the whole religion is one huge mistake.

    Nevertheless we can “agree to differ” in a friendly spirit and I hope that you will have the interest to read some of my future posts here and also mention this site to some of your Christadelphian brethren and sisters so that they can also leave their comments. My next article is entitled “The physician who doctored the Truth” which demonstrates that Dr John Thomas stole many of his ideas for his writings from contemporary writers. It will be published here soon. After that I have another ready for Corky to publish entitled “Modern Israel does not fulfil Bible prophecy.” Many more will follow, including some demonstrating that archaeology disproves the Bible and one that shows that the Bible cannot possibly be inspired by God.

    Once again; thanks for dropping by and especially thanks for leaving a comment. It is good to exchange ideas.

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  6. Ekim:

    Thanks for your comment and I’m sorry that you are not happy with our site. But I respect your point of view and I appreciate you taking the time to explain your thinking.

    Please stick around and please mention this website to other Christadelphian brethren and sisters, because I think that an honest exchange of opinions and thinking is a profitable thing for everyone.

    I admire your pursuit of “Truth”; it is an objective that we all share.

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  7. THANK YOU John for your wonderfully incisive posts. How can we get these things into the hands of Christadephians? I left in 1984 and the same cycles of soul destroying schism, scandal,ambition and fanatic puritianism keep afflicting them.
    Craig Fairweather, Sydney Australia

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  8. Craig:

    Thanks for your comments.

    I am in favour of a proactive approach to educating Christadelphians away from their religion and towards “The Truth” of atheism. I would like to create a comprehensive website with a forum, booklets and even movies demolishing the religion. I think that we ex-Christadelphians have a moral responsibility to help them. But Corky does not agree with me and I need him to partner my effort. I might go it alone one day, but it would be easier to do it with a group of like minded individuals.

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  9. It's not that I don't agree with you, John. It's just that I have tried that route before and it doesn't work. You would come away feeling even more helpless.

    Ex-Christadelphians will find this blog if they do a Google search for ex-CDs. And, after all, this is a web-site.

    It may be just a blog but so is Pharyngula and just look at the thousands of people who visit his blog.

    Just having a bigger website is not going to create more traffic.

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  10. Is your old website still on the web? What is the url?

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  11. My old website is in a Google archive. The link to it used to be on the big red "A" on the front page here but I replaced it with a link to The Painful Truth Forum on Delphi Forums.

    It's a private forum but if you sign up with Delphi, I can get you in - I'm the host.

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  12. Hmmm...I have to say I find your attitude confusing, John.
    You say you are not attacking CDs...well, I'd hate to see what you do consider to be an attack!
    The insults are in every other sentence!! And sweeping generalisations based on very little evidence (for example, accusing ekim of thinking only evil thoughts!! Stunningly aggressive...).

    This site comes over very bitter indeed, and makes assumptions based on your experience.
    Generally speaking, a calm approach is better to persuade people, rather than the agressive approach (which usually promotes a defensive response).
    Reading your post actually makes me feel sorry for you. I feel no bitterness towards CDs (except perhaps those that mistreated you), and that's perhaps the key point.
    You're clearly not yet free from whatever trap you felt you were in.
    I know some CDs - one or two of them show *some* of the traits you mention - as do a proportion of the population irrespective of religious status. The rest of them are so different to what you describe that your article makes me wonder whether there's something Christadelphia/Christadelphians that's worth looking into, as it clearly generates an intriguing debate!
    I hope you find peace in your life to move on.

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  13. Anonymous:

    I’m certainly not attacking Christadelphians. I’m trying to rescue you people from a lunatic cult that was built on rotten foundations and therefore I feel nothing but sadness and pity that you have been so hopelessly deluded by the cult/sect. I want the Christadelphians to throw off their shackles and gain the intellectual freedom that I have thankfully achieved by rejecting Christian dogma. Like a parent attempting to rescue their child from a cult I am attacking the cult and not the child. I am attacking Christadelphianism, not the people who are fooled into becoming Christadelphians and can’t think their way out of the cursed religion.

    As Corky wrote to me today about another Christadelphian who is sending hate mail to me:

    “No matter how well you explain things to them, they will still live in denial. They want to believe it - therefore, they do, and there is nothing you can say that will change their closed minds. It is only after they have left Christadelphia and rejected Christadelphian beliefs that they might be open minded enough to face reality.”

    Religion is a “mind-trap”. Like a small bird caught in a snare you are trapped. You are trapped because you are beguiled by the fantasy promises of life after death and other nonsense.

    Corky and I are not trapped. We have better things to do with our lives than write articles for people who believe nonsense. But I “waste my time” doing this because I feel a sense of moral responsibility towards Christadelphians that I should be educating them out of the religion. I was once as naïve as you to believe all that crap and I spent twenty years converting people to that religion. I feel a deep sense of guilt, shame and humiliation that I was such an ass to have championed the Christadelphian cause. I feel that it was a form of ethical crime that I committed. For twenty years I was part of the John Thomas con, feeding beguiling nonsense to people to encourage them to join and encouraging them to remain Christadelphians.

    I did a great deal of harm when I was a Christadelphian. In my own small way I impeded the development and progress of human understanding. The promotion of human ignorance and superstition is an act of wickedness and I was guilty. I intend to spend the rest of my life attempting to undo some of the damage that I did by being a Christadelphian and I’m seeking to rescue people like you Mr anonymous from the curse of human “religion”.

    Most likely you will remain in denial. But if I can pull a few members out of your cult in the years that I have left to me then I am going to do it. Those few will thank me; just like I thank those wonderful people who dragged me kicking and screaming from your cult and healed my mind of the poison that I once believed.

    If I can do that for a few then I will die content. I will have undone a little of the harm that I did when I was a Christadelphian.

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  14. And another thing Mr anonymous. - (Why do we Ex-Christadelphians use our real names and the Christadelphians publish “anonymously”???) You are the member of a cult that believes crazy things, not me. You believe in the talking snake, Noah’s Ark, humans living to a thousand years of age, Lot’s wife becoming a pillar of salt, the sun standing still in the heavens, Christ returning to kill billions of unbelievers including me; you think that you are going to rule the world for a thousand years and then live for eternity. You are the guy living in La La Land while people like me are the ones saying “Hey – get real.” Don’t go telling me “Generally speaking, a calm approach is better to persuade people, rather than the aggressive approach (which usually promotes a defensive response).” You are the mental patient who needs a reality check and that’s what I’m giving you. The “gentle approach” does not work with people as deluded as yourself and the other Christadelphians. That approach never works to rescue people from cults.

    Someone has to grab hold of you, throw a bucket of cold water over you and tell you to stop being a jerk, because that’s what Christadelphianism is. When confronted with this sort of treatment 99.9% of Christadelphians retreat into their delusion and mutter “Vengeance is mine saith The Lord, I will repay” or some other similar garbage. But occasionally a Christadelphian is sufficiently shaken by the shock treatment that for a brief, precious moment of time they pause to genuinely re-examine their convictions and an element of doubt starts to creep in amongst their dysfunctional reasoning. It is that priceless moment that I am looking for in Christadelphians. It’s like the brief period when an alcoholic has a flash of sobriety and you get the opportunity to attempt to dissuade him from taking his next drink and set him on the road to sanity.

    That’s what happened to me. A small number of fantastic people shocked me out of my Christadelphian stupor a quarter of a century ago. The shock lasted long enough for my mind to realise that it was in a cult and I began to mentally heal. It was the best thing that has ever happened to me in my entire life. Removing “God” from my mind was like surgically removing a malignant tumour from my brain.

    I want you to get that cancer out of your own head. I want all you Christadelphians to gain your freedom from the John Thomas delusion.

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  15. Heh Heh, Hey John, Since you have been a Ex member so far back as 1986, why are you wasting all this pent up energy on Christadelphians mate, as all you are doing my friend is making the faith of those in it grow stronger when you write up these sorts of comments,because the way you go on here, you are the one living in a life of delusion with all those Harry Potters out there with this dribble you have written.

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  16. Earl

    Thanks for you comments and for your interest in this site and its contents.

    Twenty five years after I left the Christadelphians I still feel a deep sense of shame and guilt that I wasted so much time and effort promoting a delusional and wholly erroneous way of thinking. I caused people to be baptised and join the Christadelphian cult. That was very wrong of me.

    We all have a responsibility to uphold and to promote truth and commendable moral behaviour and thinking. I am trying to live up to that responsibility and to educate Christadelphians and other religious people away from their dysfunctional philosophy. I shall never cease in that quest. I am attempting to undo some of the harm that I did to human understanding when I was a Christadelphian for twenty years.

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  17. I have read the posts left by ex-Christadelphians with utter disbelief. A more deluded set of people I have never encountered. I am a Christadelphian by choice, so is my husband. He researched many religions before choosing the Christadelphians so-called 'cult'. I feel very sorry that all of you only encountered Christadelphians who were clearly not behaving as God commands and yes, we have encountered such folk. Christadelphians do not claim to be spiritual beings only HUMAN beings and as such they behave like human beings. It is very wrong to treat people outside of the body of Christadelphians as 'outsiders' and those doing so will find themselves wanting in the eyes of the Lord. The Word of God tells us to welcome everyone and after the first commandment of love the Lord you God we are told to love your neighbour as yourself. This is very important. Christadelphians should try to live their lives according to the commands of Christ which means loving everybody. That is not to say that it is right to condone those people who are flagrantly disobedient to the word of God and do not seek to change their ways, we simply follow the Word of God. Read your bibles. God states quite clearly what is acceptable in a person and what is not. The rant on these pages is the rant of bitter people who failed to know God and lost their faith. Christadelphians should never claim to be the only ones who have 'got it right'. I believe that the real principles should be to Love the Lord God and his son Jesus Christ, love your neighbours, repent and be baptised and try to live your lives according to the advice given by the Lord Jesus Christ and his deciples. I hope that you bloggers read this. I am not brainwashed, this is my choice. We ALL have faults but try to see the best in people instead of spreading such negative vitriol. John Bedson uses the term 'lunatic cult' and I would say that it takes one to know one because your terminology John smacks of lunacy. I am very sorry for you indeed, try your hardest not to be so bitter and twisted because you appear to be in a very poor state indeed. I hope that you turn to your Bible and to your God again because that will be your only salvation.

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  18. Unfortunately, Maureen, people don't realize that they have been indoctrinated or "brainwashed" and believe it can't happen to them.

    If you've ever tried to convert a devout Catholic to Christadelphianism, then you should realize how wrong that assumption is.

    How long has it been since you questioned anything you've believed? Well, that's too long.

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  19. Dear Maureen

    Thanks for your comments and thank you for taking the time to read this site.

    Reading this site is your first step towards questioning your faith and realising that you have been tricked. It is a very long and an extremely painful experience and I sympathise with you and your husband for what you are going to go through over future years. It took me many years and it was deeply upsetting at the time. But eventually your mind adjusts to the awful reality that you have been misled into a fantasy of belief in nothing, by a group of weird thinking Christadelphians and then you break free.

    There is a very large and supportive group of ex-Christadelphians who have managed to free themselves from the cult and we are here to support and help you if and when you need us. When the time comes, Corky and I can put you in touch with this group and you will find them to be wonderful.

    Good luck.

    John

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  20. Hello John boy. Blimey that chip must be huge. Anyway, you're absolutely right, of course people follow the religions of their parents but where you are wrong is that doesn't stop people thinking independently. Just like you thought independently and left, other people choose to think independently and stay. Ever thought about that? And ditto other comments, to spend so much time on this is actually making you look like a sandwich short of a picnic mate - do yourself a favour and get a hobby...

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  21. My point is that it is not possible for Christadelphians (or indeed any other religious person) to “think independently and stay” because they have joined a group delusion and independent thought is very difficult – for the reasons explained in my piece. Just as it is extremely difficult to get people out of cults, the same can be said of religions and sects. It takes a strong minded person to walk away and accept that they have made a very silly mistake by joining in the first place.

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  22. This is from a Christadelphian who was raised Catholic. And not a very good Catholic. I stumbled across your site and decided to read it. I did not come to be a Christadelphian for any of the reasons you've stated.

    I decided to become a Christadelphian because the bible actually made sense. The mystery was no longer a mystery. And I believed it to be the inspired word of God (based on your comments it appears you do not believe that). As I read it & studied and made the connections I made major changes in my life. I chose to make those changes - I wanted to make those changes. Living for the day was what I was doing. At age 26 - the prime of life I was eating, drinking and being marry. And I was happy.

    Now, 15 years later, I am still happy AND have a hope. That is pure joy.

    I'm sorry you experienced a life in the truth that turned you away. And turned you away so far that you don't believe in God at all - which I gathered from your atheism comment.

    Please know that your thoughts above do not fit everyone. I know those who have left (who I still talk to) and I know more who have come from a non-Christadelphian upbringing. About 1/4 of our ecclesia were not born into a Christadelphian family.

    Please be careful with your words as you preach your plan.

    And I will post my name - Amy Craver, Ohio

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  23. Amy: Thanks for your comments. I am pleased to hear that you are so happy belonging to the Christadelphians and I think that you are doing the right thing by remaining in that religion. But if you ever get to the point where you think that you need to discuss, or leave, we are here to support you in any way that we can. Regards, John.

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  24. This is an important discussion and you should create an entry on the Rick Ross Institute (Cult Information) website, directing people to it. There is a lengthy dialogue on the Rick Ross Institute website about Christadelphianism and some of the wreckage it has created in individuals' lives. Keep in mind one point: "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."
    For many Christadelphians, no matter what logic or reasoning you place before them, they will cling to what they know and are comfortable believing. They don't let reality or facts get in their way. That's the rich thing about "faith," you don't have to back it up with anything other than blind spiritualism.

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  25. What an interesting read! and well put in my opinion. Just as Christadelphians feel passionate about their faith, why is it so wrong that you feel passionate about your way of thinking? It's a definite prime example of hypocrisy and insecurity amongst those who take it so personally they want to pity you. Now, at the moment, I'm really trying to deal with my own mental struggles I have had since leaving. It's left me a mess. I don't have the strength to be passionate about saving others from christoland, even though sometimes I wish I knew the right words to say to make those I care about open their eyes and think more about it. I'm trying to subscribe to the "live and let live" policy for the time being, although I agree with the exact points of your post. We all need our outlets, and the internet is a free forum for expression. I face the same intolerance from my own family regarding having anything to do with people who left "The Truth". We're all just slanderers with an axe to grind. Not so.

    and to Ekim, or whatever his name is....your's is the comment that enraged me the most and if that's the example I'm supposed to follow to be a good example to God, that's not a God or "family" I want anything to do with. I don't regret my decision because of people like you, and I don't feel like you deserve to hear my story or conclusions-- casting pearls before swine indeed.

    Kristina Woodland (formerly Kemp)-- Washington D.C.

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  26. Hi, I come from a Christadelphian family and had the usual indoctrination and normalisation applied to me. It was only because I am capable of independent thought that I refused to join, much to my parents concern, and went on to have quite a nice life outside the constraints of religion.
    From an early age, I somehow just knew that it was a load of nonsense. However, I was still obliged by my parents to attend the meetings and sunday school, even though I found them mind-numbingly tedious and just switched off until I could go home.
    It amazed me that all of my peers one by one got baptized into the "truth" and became brothers and sisters themselves. Eventually, when I was about 14, my parents accepted that I had no interest in the CD's and I never went to another meeting again.
    Recently, my sisters son was baptised into the faith at the tender age of 17. I find it bizarre that someone of such a young age should be allowed to join up at all, as he is not the most mature of young men. As part of the group normalisation, large numbers of youngsters were bussed in from ecclesias to witness the baptism, in the hope that they would follow his example.
    Thank you for your blog - it rang several bells as I read it. I just find it extraordinary that otherwise intelligent and level-headed people should allow themselves to be fooled on a daily basis and live their lives constrained by a 2000 year old storybook and an imaginary friend who lives in the sky.

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  27. I like these debates. I actively look for them. I have recently, within the last two years been baptised. I am old, in my thirties, and lived my life in the world before realising my mistake. Many are called, but few are chosen, is one of my favorite verses. Because i have seen the world, and what it has to offer. I choose God, every day and twice on Sundays, not because i come from a delph family, but because i searched out god myself, and i found him. I'm not arrogant enough to think ill make it into the kingdom, but i'd rather try and be on God's side than not. I hope you turn back from the path you have chosen, because Christ is coming, and you will need to justify yourself to him on that day. Take it easy.

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  28. That's all very well, but what is the evidence for your belief? There is none. I should know because I was a Christadelphian for fifteen years. You might as well say "I am a Muslim because I like the religion" - it does not make any sense to believe in something for which there is no evidence. You might as well believe in The Cracken or Big Foot. That makes no more sense than believing in God. There is not a shred of evidence that God even exists.

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  29. I hope you turn back from the path you have chosen, because Christ is coming, and you will need to justify yourself to him on that day.

    That's what the faithful said one thousand nine hundred and some odd years ago too. But, at least a few had the courage to ask, "where is the promise of his coming?" Guess what? You will be dead and forgotten and Christ will still not return because the one they called Christ, Jesus, died on a Roman cross and he's not returning - ever.

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  30. John, where is your evidence that there isn't a God? Show me yours and ill show you mine. Except you have already seen it. Did you know that the prophecies in Daniel about the coming kingdoms were so accurate that for a while historians tried to prove it was written 300 years after it actually was? (They failed, no evidence) And did you know that the reforming of the state of Israel was predicted? No matter, lets just stick with the big bang. First, there was nothing. Then it exploded. Humans think they are so clever. Truth is, we know so very little. You can have your beliefs and ill have mine, but it would be prudent to at least keep your mind open, as, lets face it, you don't know everything.

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  31. I live in Virginia. My life has been wreckage since leaving the Christadelphians. I have a family and a profession, but feel completely lost in the world. I feel I don't belong anywhere, despite having joined a mainstream church. My family and I are completely shunned by Christadelphian communities. Part of me can't believe I won't return to them; it feels unnatural to be separate from them and it feels inevitable that one day we must go back. I don't understand these feelings, and I don't understand the sense of grief and betrayal I feel for having left the community. We feel like we are not a part of the Christadelphian community, yet also not a part of "the real world." It culminates in feelings of intense depression and alienation and anxiety, and we don't know where to turn for help. We had hoped after some time these feelings would end, but they haven't changed. It is as if our destiny was that we be a part of Christadelphianism, yet somehow unnaturally reality has sent us in another direction, causing us to cease to have purpose or meaning.

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  32. Dear Anonymous from Virginia,
    I am deeply saddened to hear of your struggles. I am a Christadelphian - and am reaching out to you. Not to convince you one way or the other... just to let you know someone cares.

    I'm listing several questions here that might trigger a thought that might help...

    Have you looked at the situation from God's perspective? Not how you interact with Christadelphians, but with God?

    To move forward, my guess is you need to go back to the root reason for leaving before any resolution can come - either returning to the community or not returning.

    Is the reason for leaving resolved in your mind? (that is rhetorical...). If not - are there any actions you could take to help resolve it? Are you able to find examples in scriptures that relate to your situation?

    I will pray for you - and pray you find answers in the scriptures that will guide you.

    A concerned digital neighbor. :)
    Amy

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  33. Have you looked at the situation from God's perspective?

    CraverMom, what does that even mean? If you're not God, then that would seem to be impossible. You don't even know what a god is.

    Anyway, "Anonymous", there is "A Group for Ex-Christadelphians" on Facebook. A link is provided on the right, under "Links of Interest".

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  34. If you "look at things from God's perspective" you will probably conclude that genocide is the solution to your problems. That’s how he got himself out of a sulk on a bad day. I’m not sure that would be such a good idea. Probably best to think like a human and let humans get you out of this. When you get God involved the blood starts to flow, people get killed for picking up sticks on the Sabbath day, witches get burned, people get slaughtered for putting out a hand to stop the ark falling off a cart etc and things get real messy. Please don’t “look at things from God’s perspective” or Corky will have to call the police.

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  35. Corky & John,
    God is power – the power to create & the power to destroy what he has created.

    He has given us his words in the bible so that we may know his perspective. I’ve never seen or heard God personally. I’ve never heard your voice or know what you look like. But I have read your words on this blog and even reading these few paragraphs I have a glimpse of your perspective. God has given us many more words than what you have penned here – so that we may know his perspective and know it well.

    Yes – God has killed individuals and multitudes. He has punished and made to suffer. God has laws… laws that don’t change. Laws he has asked us to follow. And if we don’t – there are consequences.

    In comparison – man has and is committing mass killings. Murder of individuals – every day; sexually molesting children by parents; community leaders who will lie, cheat & steal for personal gain; drug dealers who convert someone if they will just “try it once”. And even a co-worker who lies about a mistake so they won’t have to deal with the consequences and causes someone else to lose a job. Man’s laws of conduct change – and are many times directed by self-gain.

    So I choose to put my trust in God & try to abide by his unchanging laws. I fear him – and I try to humble myself before him.

    John & Corky - you don’t believe there is a God. So having this discussion with you is hard. But I perceived that Anonymous from Virginia does believe in God because he is going to church. So for him (or her) – looking at things from God’s perspective (by searching the scriptures) can make sense.

    Thank you for your thoughts.
    Amy

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  36. All people in all times past have had gods and goddesses that they believed in and trusted.

    And even though their gods didn't exist, arguments against their gods were futile because they had faith in their gods. Which just goes to show that believing doesn't make it so.

    Nothing has changed either, not even for this post-modern era. People will continue to live in their delusions and their wishful thinking will continue to rule over their lives.

    Once people can force themselves and their children to believe in absurd and impossible things for which they have no evidence, it's pretty much over for their lives and their minds.

    It's sad that these people can no longer even help themselves - even though there is now an Internet with a wealth of information. No, they will live in denial of history and science or anything else that disagrees with what they WANT to believe. But, just as with the ancients, it won't make it so.

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  37. Have listened to these discussions silently, but with a veteran's interest.

    There are five Christadelphian churches in my area. Some of these are Unamended Branch meetings, others are Amended Branch meetings. I attended one of the meetings, and found whatever the members believed in terms of doctrine (and sometimes there were actually conflicting doctrinal beliefs amongst the members) the supposed "spirit" of their faith was largely lacking. The eccentrics, oddballs, mental patients, widows, and cripples were social untouchables, just like in the larger society. No one invested any real time in them. There was also a self-appointed monster who considered himself the "ruler" of the church I was attending, a genuine kick-ass who enforced the rules, administered punishments, dictated how doctrine should be interpreted, and thinned out the herd when he thought it necessary. His behavior was exactly the opposite of the behavior scripture asks us to follow, but no one in the church ever stood up to him or yanked on his reins. He'd scream you down if you angered him, and if you were genuinely unlucky he'd show up at your front door and barge his way into your home to denounce you for some perceived violation of the rules. It was a church run on fear and intimidation, and some of the children in the church lived in terror of the gentleman;
    I know, because I was once one of them. Between that and the doctrinal confusion, I ended up fleeing from the congregation. I also noticed some Christadelphians don't even follow the most basic tenets of their faith; they are supposed to be nonviolent but I was aware of occasional violence in some of their households. They aren't supposed to vote, but some secretly do so. We can attribute some of this to human weakness and personalities, but at some point the institution/church itself must be perceived as faulty.

    Departees have taken the biggest step via the act of departing. It helps to review other dissenting opinions; as a previous poster indicated, there are interesting and enlightening threads of conversation at the Rick Ross Institute and Help.com and at other sites, all of which will refer you to additional sources and defectors. It is also extremely important to acknowledge that they've messed with your head: after I uttered my first criticisms of their "Truth" several years ago, I was haunted by a terrible paranoia God would punish me by taking the lives of my children. I know that sounds incredible, but it jived with the image of a wrathful and vengeful God that the Christadelphians had instilled in me. So expect some mental and emotional complications and be gentle with yourself but also patient and courageous in overcoming them.

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  38. "...that I was such an ass to have championed the Christadelphian cause."

    Your words.

    Now why shouldI suppose that you're not being the same monumental ass in taking up your current position?

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  39. Please continue this thread at: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=463445167640495548&postID=3607430290911480995

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